Hub and its specialized sub types

[elf-pavlik]

dedicated thread to continue conversation from: #1 (comment)
@myriamboure wrote:

I am not sure that the afk models are really the same...even if it could look like. The hub notion is broader than the assembly one. In OFN, a hub can be any kind of model, while in the food assembly, I think there is only one model (which is the model of the Assembly defined by the Food Assembly, no?). In OFN, a hub can be a farmer who wants to sell its products directly, a group of farmers who want to sell their products together, a group of consumers who want to buy together, an entrepreneur who want to open something like an assembly, or sell local products to restaurants, stores, canteens, etc. I like to say that OFN cultivates the eco-diversity :-)
Also in the features list, in OFN every "entreprise" (either a hub or a producer) can set up its own "entreprise fees", their shipping methods, payment methods, etc. That fits its model (they can take 0% commission if that's a hub which is run on a volunteer base for example).
It is definitely true that the food assembly has developed a specific support to hubs that is very valuable, and has the advantage to propose a "simple model", while OFN enable a lot of customization and give a lot of flexibility to enable to operate lots of different models, which also increase a bit the complexity (even if, in my opinion, it stays pretty simple to use).
Another feature in OFN is the "holonic dimension". you can create "groups" on OFN, gathering any mix of producers and hubs, to make cooperation easier. For example that can be used by hubs who want to cooperate on logistics.
My perception is that OFN is more an infrastructure... that's why we want it to be a "commons", deployed by a network of non-profit partners.
I agree that it is important to show in the matrix non-tech elements as well :-)
In the features list I would add the possibility to connect with accounting packages?

[elf-pavlik]

from: http://openfoodnetwork.org/platform/user-guide/advanced-features/buying-groups/

@wvengen I think Foodsoft implements something like Buying Groups?

@sjockers how you see OFN: Hub & BG compare to Teikei/Ernte-teilen model?

[bedhed]

@myriamboure to continue our OFN vs TFA discussion, I think that our model is "Hub+BG = Assembly", which is a subset of OFN possibilities.
But at the end, we have pretty similar systems (for an outsider) and I'm pretty sure we tackle the same issues every day.
Would you agree ?

[myriamboure]

@bedhed I think you are right that for an outsider the platforms are pretty similar, but for a hub owner, or for an entrepreneur (individual or group) the projects are quite differents.
One thing is not so clear in the image... actually a BG can be in contact directly with various producers without going through another hub... but for example, if a BG buy some products to producers, and some others to distributors (for imported goods, like lentils, etc.) then the BG buy from farmers and from other hubs. You can form the "holon" you want.
For TFA, I'm not sure it's BG+Hub... Does the "assembly" buys through a hub (TFA) to different farmers? Is that really that or, in TFA model, the Assembly buy directly to the farmers (they pay the farmers directly, no?) and then TFA is just a service the "assembly" buy, that gives the assembly manager an online marketplace to operate, some network for sourcing, support for marketing, etc. What do you think?

[sjockers]

@elf-pavlik The data model in teikei (the software that powers the Ernte teilen website) is currently very specific to the way Solidarische Landwirtschaft (Community-supported Agriculture in Germany) works. There are two types of places:

1. farm – A place where food is produced.
2. depot – A place where CSA members meet to receive their share of produce.

The relationship between farms and depots is many-to-many.

Please note that Ernte teilen is essentially a collaborative mapping project. It does not currently provide tools for managing food networks, so the data model is most probably much simpler than that of OFN or Food Assembly.

[bedhed]

@myriamboure I think you're right, Assemblies are Buying Groups (with direct buying from each Farmer). The Hub concept is (by design) not there.
TFA is a service the farmers buy, same for Host.

[elf-pavlik]

@myriamboure @bedhed I would propose to look at responsibiliies / concerns managed by Hubs, Assemblies, Buying Groups and clarify similarities and differences this way.

@sjockers Thank you for clarifications! AFAIK many farms, at least around Berlin, while running CSA also participate in Food Assemblies. I intend to at some point make it even easier for people running farms to participate in multiple modes of sharing food. BTW off-topic for this thread but you and @almereyda might like to see together how teikei and http://transformap.co/ fit together!

[wvengen]

@elf-pavlik Foodsoft indeed implements buying groups - each group has their own instance, which they manage by themselves. (One Foodsoft installation can serve multiple instances, each with their own database.) In addition to this, there is a central database with supplier and product information that Foodsoft instances can synchronize with (used in Germany and The Netherlands).

BTW off-topic: I love the transformap idea - thinking of how we can connect existing datasources, e.g. adding a url like /_about.json with information about locations, dates, number of members, and so on to our softwares.

[elf-pavlik]

In addition to this, there is a central database with supplier and product information that Foodsoft instances can synchronize with (used in Germany and The Netherlands).

@wvengen do you have it documented somewhere how it works? Also let's please also continue this topic in #5